Tommy Schaff, CMCT, is the Managing Partner of Major League Sales, a sales strategy consulting and training firm based in St. Louis. Mentored by Dr. Robert Cialdini, Tommy is one of only six Cialdini Method Certified Trainers in North America and is at the forefront of revolutionizing sales through ethical persuasion and influence. A passionate baseball enthusiast, he has integrated his love for the sport into his business, developing programs such as the Five-Tool Sales School and the Nine Innings Sales System. Beyond his professional endeavors, Tommy is an investor and board member of the Field of Dreams movie site in Iowa and boasts a collection of over 5,000 baseball bobbleheads.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- [7:44] Cialdini’s principles of influence and why they are essential for marketers
- [12:02] Importance of ethics when applying influence techniques
- [15:25] Why we are persuaded by people who are similar to us and want to help us
- [18:39] The role of commitment and consistency in driving behavior
- [23:48] Reciprocal concessions and the impact of a well-timed second offer after rejection
- [26:13] Leveraging exclusivity and limited access to increase desire
- [28:21] The power of reciprocity and how giving triggers the need to give back
- [31:25] The science behind gift giving and why unexpected, meaningful, and personalized gifts are the most effective
In this episode…
Influence and persuasion are essential skills for marketers, sales professionals, and leaders, yet many people rely on outdated techniques that focus more on closing deals than building trust. Influence, based on behavioral science, allows professionals to guide decisions using proven strategies. How can marketers apply these influence principles to drive results and improve their communication?
According to persuasion expert Tommy Schaff, there are six principles of influence outlined by Dr. Robert Cialdini’s original work: reciprocity, commitment and consistency, social proof, authority, liking, and scarcity. Tommy emphasizes that these principles are universal across cultures, scientifically validated, and teachable. By applying them ethically — such as giving personalized, unexpected gifts or framing offers to highlight what’s at stake if customers don’t act — marketers can build lasting relationships and improve conversion rates.
In this week’s episode of The Timeless Marketing Podcast, Brian Kurtz features a presentation from Tommy Schaff, a Cialdini Method Certified Trainer and Managing Partner of Major League Sales. Tommy shares how studying Cialdini’s work transformed his career, why ethical influence is essential in today’s trust-driven world, and how marketers can apply these principles to enhance their messaging, offers, and client relationships.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Brian Kurtz
- Brian Kurtz on LinkedIn
- Chris Mason on LinkedIn
- Tommy Schaff, CMCT on LinkedIn
- Major League Sales
- Dr. Robert Cialdini
- Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert B. Cialdini, Ph.D.
- Pre-Suasion: A Revolutionary Way to Influence and Persuade by Robert B. Cialdini, Ph.D.
Special mentions:
- Yes!: 50 Scientifically Proven Ways to Be Persuasive by Noah J. Goldstein Ph.D., Steve J. Martin, and Robert B. Cialdini, Ph.D.
- Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene M. Schwartz
- Using Behavioral Science in Marketing: Drive Customer Action and Loyalty by Prompting Instinctive Responses by Nancy Harhut
- Nancy Harhut on LinkedIn
Quotable moments:
- “Selling isn’t a debate. It’s not about proving you’re right; it’s about understanding the judges you’re trying to persuade.”
- “We like people that are similar to us, complement us, and want to help us.”
- “People will always do more to protect what they already have than to gain something new.”
- “Scarcity doesn’t improve the experience of the product — it just makes you want it more urgently.”
- “Unexpected, personalized, and meaningful gifts are pure magic because they open doors, repair relationships, and create lasting loyalty.”
Action steps:
- Practice ethical influence: Focus on using persuasion techniques ethically, ensuring that your influence is beneficial and not manipulative.
- Incorporate the power of commitment into your sales process: Ask prospects to make small, public commitments early on to increase follow-through and long-term buy-in.
- Use reciprocity strategically in client relationships: Offer unexpected, personalized value upfront to create a sense of obligation and strengthen future collaboration.
- Frame offers using both gain and loss: Highlight not only what your product provides, but also what prospects risk losing if they don’t act now.
- Create genuine scarcity to drive urgency: Emphasize limited availability or time-sensitive benefits to encourage faster decision-making without compromising trust.
Sponsor for this episode…
This episode is brought to you by Titans Xcelerator.
Titans Xcelerator is a private mentorship program for direct response marketers.
It is one of the most giving communities and serves as the de facto board of advisors and marketing insurance policy for over 250 of the best and brightest direct response marketers, copywriters, media buyers, marketing agencies, senior executives, anyone in direct response marketing, who is committed to growing and scaling their business.
And you don’t need to spend 10s of 1000s of dollars either.
Titans Xcelerator is 1/10 of the price of most groups of its kind.
And with a private membership, you’ll receive access to the full presentation from today’s episode, along with the Q&A and discussion that followed.
As an added bonus, you’ll receive access to a vault filled with many more private calls just like this one.
The bottom line: you don’t have to grow your business alone.
If you want to see how Titans Xcelerator can help you grow and scale your specific business, go to BrianKurtz.net/help
Episode Transcript
Intro: 00:02
Welcome to the Timeless Marketing Podcast with Brian Kurtz. Your connection to insights from some of the top direct response marketing minds on the planet.
Brian Kurtz: 00:17
Hey, it’s Brian Kurtz here host of the Timeless Marketing Podcast. Today’s episode is a clip from one of the two-hour calls inside Titans Xcelerator, my private mentorship program for direct response marketers. Before we get to that, I have one question for you. Do you have a marketing insurance policy? If you don’t, you need one. And that’s why I created Titans Xcelerator, which is one of the most giving communities and serves as the de facto board of advisors and marketing insurance policy for over 250 of the best and brightest direct response marketers, copywriters, media buyers, marketing agencies, senior executives, anyone in direct response marketing, who is committed to growing and scaling their business. The bottom line, you don’t have to grow your business alone. And you don’t need to spend tens of thousands of dollars either. Titans Xcelerator is 1/10 of the price of most groups of its kind. I know because I hosted a group that was over $20,000 a year. If you want to see how Titans Xcelerator can help you grow and scale your specific business, go to BrianKurtz.net/help. That’s B-R-I-A-N-K-U-R-T-Z.net/help. And with a private membership, you’ll receive access to the full presentation from today’s episode, along with the Q&A and discussion that followed. As an added bonus, you’ll receive access to a vault filled with many more private calls just like this one. Again, if you want to see if Titans Xcelerator is a fit for you with no obligation, go to BrianKurtz.net/help. That’s B-R-I-A-N-K-U-R-T-Z.net/help. And feel free to email me directly. I respond to every email with questions about this episode or just to say hi, at Brian@BrianKurtz.net. Now onto today’s episode. So let’s get to Tommy. Tommy has a presentation, I guess what about 20 minutes and half hour Tommy?
Tommy Schaff: 02:35
I was going to say it was two hours and 11 minutes, but we could put it on Mighty Networks, and it’ll be. Too early? Too early.
Brian Kurtz: 02:44
Yeah. Too early. Right. So, you know, he’s going to do a presentation that he and I talked about. We just got together and shot the shit for, I don’t know, 45 minutes or it might have been an hour. It went fast because Tommy is someone who you can talk to about almost anything and find something in common with him, which is I love people like that. And so we became fast friends when he joined. I got to know him a little bit more and I didn’t ask him, I basically said, you must do a Titan spotlight on something in your world. And we got to talking about Cialdini and Influence and Pre-suasion. And obviously Cialdini is someone who I’ve studied for my whole career. He’s someone who many copywriters, if they don’t point to Breakthrough Advertising as their ultimate source for copywriting and and and marketing, they point to Cialdini’s Influence. And it’s not even a marketing book. But we know that everything in marketing is about influence. Tommy is a student of Cialdini, but he’s a student of a lot more too. He’s a student of giftology. He’s a student of baseball. He’s a student of so many things. He’ll give you a quick background on himself, hopefully. And why you should listen to him. And then I’m going to leave it up to Tommy to develop his thesis on, you know why Cialdini and his and his ethical principles of influence matter so much to all of us all the time, whether we’re marketers, copywriters, or just human beings. And then we’ll get into a discussion in Q&A on what he presents. So, Tommy, so pleased that you agreed, although I didn’t have to twist your arm, but I needed to get you to say yes. And you said yes. And I’m so pleased. And the Xcelerator are yours.
Tommy Schaff: 05:06
Thanks. My classmates in high school would be just stunned that I’m talking to a bunch of marketing experts about influence. I ran for class president four times and was beaten by our class drug dealer four times in a row. So to be an expert on anything is really stunning to them. But we’ll give it a go.
Brian Kurtz: 05:29
I had a similar experience. I was the biggest, I was the most highly ranked pothead in my high school class. So.