June 27, 2024

David Deutsch

David Deutsch is an internationally renowned direct response copywriter and marketing strategist, boasting decades of experience crafting and overseeing successful direct mail and online campaigns for top-tier clients like Procter & Gamble, Agora, and Boardroom Inc. (now Bottom Line Publications). He also dedicates his expertise to training, coaching, and mentoring copywriters, copy teams, and marketers across the globe. A passionate advocate for creativity, David is the author of the acclaimed book Think Inside the Box!, which focuses on generating profitable ideas.

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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

  • [3:14] David Deutsch highlights tools for managing and interconnecting your marketing ideas
  • [4:04] Why every word counts in creating impactful copy
  • [6:23] Insight into writing copy that speaks to someone’s deepest desires
  • [8:10] The timeless nature of successful direct response marketing techniques
  • [10:56] Why it’s crucial to personalize messaging when targeting a broader audience
  • [13:56] How to think more effectively about your prospects to improve your copy
  • [17:00]David reveals interviewing strategies to get inside the minds of your customers

In this episode…

Do you ever feel like your marketing strategies are not resonating with your target audience? Have you struggled to pinpoint exactly what your customers want, need, and dream about? What if understanding these elements could significantly transform your marketing success? 

David Deutsch, a renowned copywriter, shares invaluable insights on connecting deeply with your audience, even if you are not part of their demographic. He emphasizes the importance of immersing yourself in the customer’s world to truly grasp their desires and pain points. Practices such as becoming a part of the lifestyle you are marketing to, listening in on customer service calls, and conducting in-depth customer interviews are key to gathering real-life insights. These methods help craft persuasive copy that resonates on a personal level, moving beyond generic benefits to tap into deeper, often subconscious motivations. 

In this episode of the Timeless Marketing Podcast, Brian Kurtz chats with David Deutsch, an internationally-known direct response copywriter and marketing strategist, as they delve into the art of copywriting. David discusses the importance of understanding psychological triggers that compel action and how to harness these insights to create compelling narratives. He also shares practical strategies for streamlining your writing process and knowing your prospect’s journey intimately.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Quotable Moments: 

  1. “Copywriting isn’t just writing; it’s about getting to the root of what people really want and what you need to know about them to communicate effectively.” 
  2. “Interviewing customers isn’t just about gathering data; it’s about discovering the emotional journeys that your products initiate.” 
  3. “The best copy doesn’t come from sitting and writing; it comes from thinking and feeling like your prospect does every day.” 
  4. “The real power in copywriting comes from the ability to relate a product to the prospects’ deepest desires and dreams.” 
  5. “To excel in copywriting, you need to be a bit of a method actor — really getting into the shoes of your prospect.”

Action Steps:

  1. Engage in customer interviews to understand their journey and the emotional impact of the product.
    • This allows the copywriter to create authentic narratives that speak directly to the customer’s personal experiences. 
  2. Trade with real money if writing for financial markets to feel the emotional highs and lows.
    • Experiencing the customer’s emotional journey firsthand equips the writer with genuine empathy and insights to craft powerful copy. 
  3. Spend time in customer service to listen to real complaints and feedback.
    • Hearing the customer’s raw reactions and thoughts provides an unfiltered view of what the market truly values or objects to. 
  4. Conduct a “so what?” analysis to dig into the root of customer desires.
    • This action distills a customer’s superficial wants into their fundamental needs and aspirations, enriching copy with resonant emotional triggers. 
  5. Simplify your communication, even when writing for an intelligent audience.
    • Clarity ensures the message is understood quickly and easily, respecting the customer’s attention and increasing engagement.

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Titans Xcelerator.

Titans Xcelerator is a private mentorship program for direct response marketers.

It is one of the most giving communities and serves as the de facto board of advisors and marketing insurance policy for over 250 of the best and brightest direct response marketers, copywriters, media buyers, marketing agencies, senior executives, anyone in direct response marketing, who is committed to growing and scaling their business.

And you don’t need to spend 10s of 1000s of dollars either. 

Titans Xcelerator is 1/10 of the price of most groups of its kind. 

And with a private membership, you’ll receive access to the full presentation from today’s episode, along with the Q&A and discussion that followed. 

As an added bonus, you’ll receive access to a vault filled with many more private calls just like this one.

The bottom line: you don’t have to grow your business alone. 

If you want to see how Titans Xcelerator can help you grow and scale your specific business, go to BrianKurtz.net/help

Episode Transcript

Intro  0:03 

Welcome to the Timeless Marketing Podcast with Brian Kurtz, your connection to insights from some of the top direct response marketing minds on the planet.

Brian Kurtz  0:16  

Hey, it’s Brian Kurtz here, host of the Timeless Marketing Podcast. Today’s episode is a clip from one of the two-hour calls inside Titans Xcelerator, my private mentorship program for direct response marketers. Before we get to that, I have one question for you. Do you have a marketing insurance policy? If you don’t, you need one. And that’s why I created Titans Xcelerator, which is one of the most giving communities and serves as the de facto board of advisors and marketing insurance policy for over 250 of the best and brightest direct response marketers, copywriters, media buyers, marketing agencies, senior executives, anyone in direct response marketing, who is committed to growing and scaling their business, the bottom line, you don’t have to grow your business alone. And you don’t need to spend 10s of 1000s of dollars either. 

Titans Xcelerator is 1/10 of the price of most groups of its kind. I know because I hosted a group that was over $20,000 a year. If you want to see how Titans Xcelerator can help you grow and scale your specific business, go to briankurtz.net/help. That’s B-R-I-A-N Kurtz [dot] net [slash] help. And with a private membership, you’ll receive access to the full presentation from today’s episode, along with the Q&A and discussion that followed. As an added bonus, you’ll receive access to a vault filled with many more private calls just like this one. Again, if you want to see if Titans Xcelerators are fit for you with no obligation. Go to Briankurtz.net/help. That’s B-R-I-A-N Kurtz [dot] net [slash] help. And feel free to email me directly. I respond to every email with questions about this episode. Or just to say hi, brian@briankurtz.net. 

Now onto today’s episode. Is Mr Deutsch on the call yet? David Deutsch?

David Deutsch 2:32

Yeah, I’m here. 

Brian Kurtz 2:34

How long have you been skulking around behind the scenes? 

David Deutsch 2:37

I’ve been lurking for a minute or two, a minute or two, then you didn’t get any of the knowledge or wisdom, which is okay, because you have more than enough of that. My head is already filled up with, right, right? I don’t know if I call it knowledge and wisdom, but it’s pretty filled. 

Brian Kurtz 2:51

You just gotta have a full computer, your hard drive is definitely full, right? 

David Deutsch 2:56

I either need a memory upgrade or I need to download some of this stuff, you know?

Brian Kurtz 3:00

You can offload it into another, another, you know, another hard drive somewhere, and then that would put it in a closet. 

David Deutsch 3:07

Actually, I’ve been using Rome a little for that, which is kind of an interesting program.

Brian Kurtz 3:13

R-O-M-E?

David Deutsch 3:14

R-O-A-M. it’s a, it’s an interrelational, um, it’s, you know, Workflowy at all? 

Brian Kurtz 3:21

Yeah, we use Workflowy.

David Deutsch 3:25

It’s like Workflowy on steroids. It’s like Workflowy, but you can connect things to each other. So let’s say you’re interviewing someone, or you’re writing about what you learned from interviewing, you know, Russell Brunson or something, and you learned about Facebook, well, that links to the Facebook page, so that if you ever go to the Facebook page, not only will you see the note from Russell Brunson, you’ll see the notes from anyone else that you tagged with that. So it says it’s a cross reference with keywords. Yes, I mean, workflow is basically a keyword to find, not exactly a keyword, but yeah, 

Brian Kurtz 4:02

Workflowy is fairly simplistic, but it works. 

David Deutsch 4:04

Yeah, this adds a whole other dimension to workflow. It’s amazing, neat. 

Brian Kurtz 4:10

Well, anything that would help you get your mind in shape is probably worthwhile for anybody to consider. 

David Deutsch 4:17

Yeah, absolutely so. 

Brian Kurtz 4:19

Anyway, now that you’ve seen David Deutsch, that’s David Deutsch in the flesh on Zoom. He is. He’s one of the best copywriters in the world, and he’s also one of the most unassuming guys you’d ever want to meet. And yet, when you start getting into discussions about copy and marketing, he becomes very assuming. But he does it in a way that’s and that’s a compliment, David, that he does it in a way that is always intelligent, always thoughtful. And as Bill Cates, we were talking about you at the beginning of the call, just to tee you up a little bit. And Bill Cates was on the line. He said, ” What do you know? What do you value most when working with David? 

And he said, you know David, you know you think David, you’ll ask him something, or you’re in a conversation about some copy or something, and you think that he’s just, like, totally ignoring you. He’s turned you off. And basically it’s just the opposite. He’s like, the wheels are turning, and he is thinking, and then he comes out with, you know, the gem of all gems. And then someone else chimed in, who said, you know, working with David is like, you know, you start talking about something, and he can rattle off the best headlines, not immediately, but with thought. 

And I know that you, you did this at boardroom, you know, with me that you would think about, you wouldn’t, you would never give a quick answer when someone’s talking about, you know, coming up with a headline, coming up with a copy platform. And then once you started writing, you were as meticulous as anybody. I mean, you were, it was, it was painful to watch from my perspective, because every word had to be perfect, or at least perfect in your mind, and then after it was done, you would revise it again. And so that’s the sign of a great copywriter. I think that you know, Done is better than perfect, but perfect and done is pretty good, too, right?

David Deutsch  6:23  

Yeah. I mean, I think, I think some copywriters are a little less meticulous, like, like, just work in a more improvisational way than, like, let’s say Paris and I, who are very craftsmen about it. Jim Rutz was very craftsman-like, about it. Jim Punkre, like, you know. But I think it’s just, I think it’s all a matter of getting in touch with, you know, the inner persuader inside you, and writing from there, you know. I think that’s just the most important thing is to be able to, you know, people keep saying, Oh, it’s, you know, how do I write? 

What are the techniques for writing? How do I write better? What are the templates? What are the formulas? But you know, it really comes down to, you know that one on one, can I relate to this person? Do I know enough about this person, and can I really get deep within myself to be able to take my product and frame it in a way where it really relieves some pain point of theirs, or gives them something that they, you know, they dream about at night.

Brian Kurtz  7:32  

So you’re obviously a proponent of, you know, writing to one person to represent the whole of an audience that you’re writing to. How do you do that, especially now with and has it changed over time? Because you’ve been doing this a long time? So I’m wondering, with all the whiz bang list segmentation software and everything that you can do to, you know, tweak copy to certain segments of a list and all of that. How much has that changed? And does it still come down to writing to one person initially and then branching out?

David Deutsch  8:10  

Yeah, I think it still comes down to writing to one person. There’s a lot of stuff on top of that you could think about in terms of how people have been affected by covid and where they’re at nowadays, and attention spans and things like that. But, you know, even in ancient Greece, right? People did things for the same reasons. We do things, you know, they do things. And it’s not, you know, people, it’s very easy to just latch on to, like, quick benefits, like, you know, Oh, someone wants to, you know, get healthy. I’m going to tell them how they can get healthy. 

They want to relieve their arthritis, right? Or they want to make money, right? Well, you could leave it there, and you could write an okay promotion about lessening the pain or making more money. But people don’t just want money. Money is just pieces of paper. It’s just numbers on a bank account. They want something deeper and to certain people, like biz op or something like that. A lot of times they want to prove themselves right. They want to show those people that said they would never amount to anything that they’ve amounted to something they want to, not that they want to be good providers for their family, right? They want to be seen as a good husband, father or whatever. So that’s

Brian Kurtz  9:32  

the will tell, won’t tell, can’t tell, thing that I think from Claude Ripa that, right?

David Deutsch  9:38  

Yeah, right. That’s another way to look at it is, what are those things? And that’s, you know, I think the best writers, no matter how they work, just have a way of getting to that, you know, like Dan Kennedy always had that. I don’t know if I ever told this story, but i i It’s not a story. It’s kind of made up. But whenever I would talk to Dan Kennedy, I would say, you know. Like, you know, whatever it was people that want to lose weight, he would tell me all about people that want to lose weight, all the deep secrets, right, that he’s learned people that want to do this. And I swear I could say to him, like, lion tamers, I’m doing a promotion to lion tamers. 

And he would say, Well, I’ll tell you the thing about lions and tamers. The thing about lion tamers is when they stick their head in the lion’s mouth, they really would like the lion to bite down and kill him, because then they’ll be famous, and they’ll be the most famous lion tamer in the world. So if you know that about lion tamers, you could sell to lion tamers, and he always had those kinds of insights. And that’s, that’s gold, right? Like, forget about writing and perfecting your writing and things like that. It’s that kind of insight into people that when you write like that, they feel you know them and you can relate to you and your product in an entirely different way.

Brian Kurtz  10:56  

Did I mean, I’ve always felt that, you know, working with you and all the writers that I’ve worked with, it’s like, I feel like, I mean, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna swell your head anymore, but that, you know, you guys are like, God to me, you know there, it’s like, there’s certain things that you do, you know, the alchemy that you perform that mortal men can’t. Mortal men and women can’t do so, but it came, it came with, with any you had to have something. 

I guess what I’m saying is, there has to be a gene for it, but there also has to be a lot of training, and a lot of, you know, sweat equity, put in. And how much is it? How much is it the genes of being a great copywriter and or the sweat equity of doing the work, and you know, the hunger and the passion and the you know, everything that you need to do to be that kind of writer. Do you have a percentage? Is it 5050? Is it 64? I want to get it down to a science. Yeah. Like list, like 20, yeah, exactly. I’m an English major who likes numbers.

David Deutsch  12:09  

You know, I, you know, it’s different. For different reasons, some people have a knack for writing, right? And some people have a knack for writing copy. A lot of times, it’s people who were salesmen to begin with, because they’re used to selling to people, and somehow they’re able to translate that into copy, like Paris. Paris used to be a salesman, and he’s just really good at, you know, selling through copy. Um, but it’s certainly learnable, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s learnable in the sense that you know you can. There are ways to get to the root of what people really want and what you need to know about them to communicate with them effectively. 

And there are ways to know how to put that into a selling piece, right, and how to put that into a copy, right? There are patterns to look at, I mean, even though I put down templates and formulas right there, there are things to go by. There are patterns in writing that you can look at. And this is what I show people to do, right? It’s like, okay, look at this piece. See how he goes from problem to solution to, you know, whatever, right, whatever that pattern is there. Here Look at all this proof, or look at how he alternates fact proof, fact proof, all those things are, you know, are analyzable if you, if you just have a little bit of knowledge of what to look for. 

Brian Kurtz  13:40  

You were going to share something, the title of your presentation, what people need to do.

David Deutsch  13:47  

‘So stop writing and do this instead’. Yeah. 

Brian Kurtz  13:50  

So what? Now, that’s the tease. That’s a good fascination. So deliver on that fascination.

David Deutsch  13:56  

Well, you know, I think, you know, we have been a little bit, we’ve been talking about all the things to do instead of writing, you know, to really think deeply about your prospect and to really know, like, what keeps him up at night and what you know, like you said, the three things, right? What can tell, won’t tell, what keeps them up at night, and what, what are they, you know, what do they dream about when they finally go to sleep? 

And then to think about how to present what you want to tell them in an interesting way, right? That’s so, you know, that’s so critical. You know, you can think when you can come up with an idea like why French women don’t get fat for a market like weight loss, right? That comes from thinking, right that doesn’t come from sitting there going, oh, what should my headline be? And you know, what rules should I know that comes from an insight that comes from, and sometimes it comes from just. Being still and not even thinking, right, right?

About the author 

Brian Kurtz

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