July 11, 2024

Kevin Rogers

Kevin Rogers is the Founder of Copy Chief, a world-class copywriting training center and community that offers proven methods and frameworks for writing better copy faster. He is a best-selling author, speaker, and direct response copywriter who has generated over $100 million in sales and helped over 4,367 business owners and copywriters exceed their revenue goals through copywriting instruction and community support. 

Copy Chief has facilitated millions of dollars in successful copy project agreements and is featured on various platforms with positive testimonials from high-performing copywriters and business owners. In addition to his successful career, Kevin hosts the Copy Chief Radio Podcast and is passionate about helping freelancers find their unique strengths and build thriving careers.


Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

  • [2:38] How advertising has rapidly evolved in response to COVID-19
  • [3:45] Reflecting on various COVID-19 experiences in marketing communications
  • [9:29] The importance of finding the right language in marketing during times of crisis
  • [11:07] Strategies for copywriters to engage clients and provide value amid uncertainty
  • [15:17] Emphasizing relationship-building over revenue events in marketing
  • [17:16] The phases of a freelancer’s journey and structuring a freelancing career
  • [21:01] Transitioning to business ownership as a freelancer
  • [30:25] Kevin Rogers’ concept of a living legacy within the marketing community

In this episode…

Are you struggling to keep up with the rapidly evolving marketing and advertising world? How do you ensure your copywriting resonates in these uncertain times? The answers may lie in fostering genuine connection and understanding the core principles of direct response marketing.

Kevin Rogers, Founder of Copy Chief, tackles these issues head-on by emphasizing the importance of staying relevant and connected with your audience. He shares insights from industry leaders like Todd Brown, who stress the necessity of adapting and testing in real time. Kevin also discusses how he encourages his community of copywriters to reach out to clients individually during challenging periods like COVID-19, offering personalized support and innovative solutions to keep their messages authentic and timely. 

Join host Brain Kurtz in this episode of the Timeless Marketing Podcast as he welcomes  Kevin Rogers, Founder of Copy Chief, to discuss the essence of leveraging one’s unique strengths and consistently engaging with clients to maintain trust and relevance. They talk about navigating the challenges and opportunities in direct response marketing and the importance of clear communication and adaptive strategies. Kevin also explains the concept of the “Freelancer’s Journey”.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Quotable Moments: 

  • “Every interaction is not a transaction opportunity; it’s a relationship opportunity.”
  • “You can’t say nothing; silence is not an option in this.”
  • “It’s kind of like stepping into this idea of what are your strengths as a business owner and what you do really well and stay in that lane.”
  • “Our experience with Covid is different right now. When you speak about it in real-time, you also have to be conscientious that not everybody’s having your experience.”
  • “The freelancer’s journey is a way to become a business owner without all the pressure of going all in on a business.”

Action Steps:

  1. Embrace uncertainty as a natural part of marketing and use it to drive innovation and test new ideas.
    • Evolving with change ensures relevance and continuous improvement.
  2. Regularly update your communication to stay in touch with your audience’s current circumstances and sentiments.
    • Effective communication is key to maintaining connection and trust with your audience.
  3. Leverage your unique experiences to distinguish yourself in the marketplace and create a niche.
    • Leveraging individuality enables standout value and potential leadership within the industry.
  4. Advance from a generalist to a specialist within your field to increase demand and expertise for your services.
    • Specialization leads to authority and higher income potential, an approach proven successful within the Copy Chief community.
  5. Consider the legacy that your work will leave, not just in terms of achievements but also its impact on others.
    • Building a living legacy creates ongoing influence and keeps one’s purpose-driven efforts at the forefront.

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Titans Xcelerator.

Titans Xcelerator is a private mentorship program for direct response marketers.

It is one of the most giving communities and serves as the de facto board of advisors and marketing insurance policy for over 250 of the best and brightest direct response marketers, copywriters, media buyers, marketing agencies, senior executives, anyone in direct response marketing, who is committed to growing and scaling their business.

And you don’t need to spend 10s of 1000s of dollars either. 

Titans Xcelerator is 1/10 of the price of most groups of its kind. 

And with a private membership, you’ll receive access to the full presentation from today’s episode, along with the Q&A and discussion that followed. 

As an added bonus, you’ll receive access to a vault filled with many more private calls just like this one.

The bottom line: you don’t have to grow your business alone. 

If you want to see how Titans Xcelerator can help you grow and scale your specific business, go to BrianKurtz.net/help

Episode Transcript

Intro  0:03  

Welcome to the Timeless Marketing Podcast with Brian Kurtz, your connection to insights from some of the top direct response marketing minds on the planet.

Brian Kurtz  0:16  

Hey, it’s Brian Kurtz here, host of the Timeless Marketing Podcast. Today’s episode is a clip from one of the two-hour calls inside Titans Xcelerator, my private mentorship program for direct response marketers. Before we get to that, I have one question for you. Do you have a marketing insurance policy? If you don’t, you need one. And that’s why I created Titans Xcelerator, which is one of the most giving communities and serves as the de facto board of advisors and marketing insurance policy for over 250 of the best and brightest direct response marketers, copywriters, media buyers, marketing agencies, senior executives, anyone in direct response marketing, who is committed to growing and scaling their business, the bottom line, you don’t have to grow your business alone. And you don’t need to spend 10s of 1000s of dollars either. 

Titans Xcelerator is 1/10 of the price of most groups of its kind. I know because I hosted a group that was over $20,000 a year. If you want to see how Titans Xcelerator can help you grow and scale your specific business, go to briankurtz.net/help. That’s B-R-I-A-N Kurtz [dot] net [slash] help. And with a private membership, you’ll receive access to the full presentation from today’s episode, along with the Q&A and discussion that followed. As an added bonus, you’ll receive access to a vault filled with many more private calls just like this one. Again, if you want to see if Titans Xcelerators are fit for you with no obligation. Go to Briankurtz.net/help. That’s B-R-I-A-N Kurtz [dot] net [slash] help. And feel free to email me directly. I respond to every email with questions about this episode. Or just to say hi, brian@briankurtz.net. 

Now onto today’s episode. Hey, Kev, how are you doing? 

Kevin Rogers  2:29  

Good buddy. How’s it going?

Brian Kurtz  2:30  

Pretty good. Pretty good. Our star speaker. Look at him. What? What is the 

Kevin Rogers  2:38  

I adjust my light with the flip of a blind. You know, you’ve gone pro, my friend. 

Brian Kurtz  2:44  

You know I knew you were a pro already. But again, every time you say, Do I just have to show up? And then say something? I said, No, all you have to do is show up. I mean, we can all watch you breathe for an hour and a half. Yeah. So Kev, you know, that was, that was Dean. And you know, you had this series of interviews with some great people. You had Todd Brown. You had a bunch of people. 

So tell me about, you know, give an overview of what else you, you know, heard from those people you interviewed, and also whatever you’re thinking about, because you, you’re a great thinker, and you’re thinking ahead as well. So don’t underestimate that, either. But what do you see? What? And not just with covid, but you know, how are you looking ahead to post covid? Because we’re, you know, we have to, we’re thinking now and we’re thinking in the future. So, so what? What do you do? What do you have for us? 

Kevin Rogers  3:45  

Well, that’s been an interesting thing, right? Is that how fast time has moved in some ways, again, another great dichotomy, in some ways, we the running joke has been, what day is it? We just every day feel the same on other hands when it comes to marketing and advertising, I think things have evolved so quickly. Take, for instance, if you’re seeing any if you’re watching any broadcast television and seeing commercials, it to me, it, you know, because it’s a slower pace to get something produced in, on the air. But we’re seeing this like lag of like, one or two weeks with broadcast advertising on television where, you know, at first you it was like, just weird. One two weeks into lockdown, you’d see a commercial with people gathered and or hugging, and you’re like, Oh, what the hell is that they’re crazy. You know, it just felt immediately out of touch. Then they caught up, and every single commercial was a piano, a slow piano and a minor key, and lots of slow close ups of people in mass and everybody in scrubs is now our hero. The guy stocking the shelves is the most brave, the bravest person in our world. Or community, and that was all, like, really touching for a while, and then we sort of started, we got used to that. 

And we all really got sick of that, that vibe, right? And now we’re still seeing some commercials that started running then, and it’s just like, it’s incredible how quickly that feels out of touch. So it’s a great advantage for us, and you’re right Brown, we have to think now, but also think ahead. So I think for me, in my business, the thing we’ve seen most directly is, and I think done pretty well, is, how do we have this conversation in a way that’s appropriate, but not make sure that it doesn’t ever start to sound gratuitous or condescending, or last week right like that’s just a big thing we’re all facing right now, even like terms like uncertain times just became hack and cliched, really fast things like that. So just really paying attention to language and again, like being sensitive to the fact that our experience is different. Look, we’ve all been dealing virtually. We have people from all over the country, and I’m sure various places in the world are on this call right now. This is how we’re used to dealing with each other. And our experience with covid is different right now, on some levels than any vastly different. And so when you speak about it in real time, you also have to be conscientious that not everybody’s having your experience. For instance, here in my county, I looked it up this morning, there were only, like, 600 hospitals, hospitalizations in my entire county. That’s pretty amazing. 

There’s only been, you know, a few 100, 100 or so deaths, which is a blessing, amazing. I don’t know why it is, you know, who knows? Might not know that science for years. But so here, things are starting to open up, and people are really eager to kind of get back to life. You’re starting to see people at restaurants, and everybody’s just kind of gone. We did what we could. We’re rolling the dice. Let’s hope not for a second wave, and let’s go right? That’s kind of the vibe here. But I know people in New York or Connecticut and other people just in my own mind where it’s like, we’re not even thinking about leaving the house yet we’re locked down, and so just being conscious of that and thinking about your language in a whole new way is really important. Yeah, but you know, the great thing about those, those called Brian, and I’m sure you’ve had several like this too, it’s such a privilege to talk to true leaders, true forward thinkers, because their principles are solid no matter what the environment is, right? And I loved Todd Brown. The big standout that Todd brown shared was he’s like, look, yes, these are uncertain times again. This is like week one of lockdown. He said, Of course, this is freaky and weird, right? 

Now we don’t know what’s going to happen, but really, how is that different from any other time in marketing, right? We never know what’s going to happen. That’s why we test, and that’s why we guess, and that’s why we put a lot of stuff out and we read the data. That’s what we do. It’s what we’re built for. We’re in this industry because we embrace that. We don’t always love it, but we live in uncertainty. And so the thing we have to do to get through this is the same thing we should always be doing, which is making sure we are in tune with what our prospects want from us, what they desire right now, and finding new ways to give it to them, finding exciting, innovative ways to deliver it to them. And I was like, man, and, you know, Todd’s a preacher, and he gets all worked up, yeah? And I just thought, that’s so simple and brilliant. It’s such a reminder, and it shows like, why a guy like Todd? You know, if there’s such a thing as being crisis proof, it’s those sort of principles, those sort of elements, that it’s like, man, there’s a crisis waiting around the corner at all times in life and business and entrepreneurship. It’s just, it’s just part of the deal, and you can’t walk around scared all the time, but you’ve got to walk around very conscious all the time.

Brian Kurtz  9:29  

Let me ask you a question. Kev, specifically to your avatar. And there’s a lot of people who might be in your group, in this, in this, on this call, or at least they know a lot of them know of you, because you were asked to be a speaker so you had enough popularity to get in. You made the cut. Thank you. Yeah, you made the cut. So the thing is, two things combined. So first of all, we talked a lot about, you know, covid and, you know, not being tone deaf, but not being obsessed. And terms have to change over time. But more importantly, you know your people are copywriters and the people you coach are copywriters. Copywriters, by their nature, are already on pre covid. You know they’re already working on their own. 

They’re already in that space. So how do you speak to your audience? And this might be helpful to other people who don’t have copywriters, but I thought of it when Bill said, you know, how do I get real estate owners to realize how to get a million dollar business? And you know, you and I have done that. You know how copywriters get to a million dollars, right? Right? So I think that can you speak like how? Because I don’t think a lot would be changed as far as how copywriters work. It might be that they have less business. But then again, if they’re leaders in the copywriting community, which I know most of your people are, wouldn’t they be trying when you teach them to convince their clients that this is the best time to promote, yeah? And I can write for you in this environment, that type of thing, yeah. So talk about that.

Kevin Rogers  11:07  

Sure. Yeah. That was, that was one thing we did. It was like, Look, naturally, some people lost gigs in it was, again, one of those things where it’s like, if you were newer at it, and you were still, for instance, being more of a generalist, so you weren’t specializing. You were more susceptible to having gigs canceled and things like that, if you didn’t have enough reputation to have a strong contract to protect you from things like that, right? So when people are scrambling for work, where he’s like, look, go to your client list. Email every single one of them individually. Don’t send out a broad email. Go to every single former client individually and say, look, here’s the pattern we’re seeing. Rule number one is you cannot say nothing, right? 

You’re not allowed to not say anything. And yes, you know, there’s this flood of emails and everybody’s inbox where we’re like, I don’t remember ever even being on this list or doing and they’re telling me a message from our CEO, but they you’ve got to do that. I don’t care if it’s being done to me. If they care about you. They’re waiting to hear from you. So silence is not an option. That’s number one. Number two, there’s a way to talk about this in a way that feels genuine, that is sincere, even if you don’t know the punchline or that there is no call to action. You can’t even say what’s next. There’s a way to have this conversation, and I’ve been helping other clients do this, and I’m in a community where we’ve talked a lot about how to create these messages. 

Is this something I could help you with? Right? So, so just a simple thing like that, because, man, again, an unprecedented event, it’s very hard to know. There is no script for this. Is no template, right? So if you could step up and provide one, and it was a great way to provide a simple, immediate service, even in some cases, I said, offer it for free. It’s like, Look, I know how this language works. Let me just be cool and help you out with this. That’s the spirit of what we’re all doing right now, and a cool way to get a dialog going with you know, it’s funny, you mentioned that actually things are great for us, but we do need some copy for this other thing, right? So, that was one thing. 

About the author 

Brian Kurtz

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